I am avid consumer of the existence of God debates on youtube and christian apologetics in general. i have listened to everyone of the so called new atheists (christopher hitchesn, Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris) except for Will ... read full comment
I am avid consumer of the existence of God debates on youtube and christian apologetics in general. i have listened to everyone of the so called new atheists (christopher hitchesn, Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris) except for William Dennett arguing for a materialistic universe apart from the existence of God. they all make the fundamental error you have so eloquently described in the 3rd paragraph of your discourse in denying the existence of the super natural because their starting points exclude data sets incompatible with their world views. We Africans and other traditional societies KNOW FOR A FACT that the supernatural exists and have been living it and demonstrating it for centuries. the ignorant people here about the true nature of our universe is not the African but the Ivy league educated professor who does not believe.
i wish to make some corrections to your article.
1. Islam is NOT a judaic religion, the god of Islam, Allah is not the same as YHWH (tetragrammaton), the God of the Bible, both old and new testaments.
2. In Christianity the non physical realms can be and is interacted with in this life not just after death. its in the form of prayer, of speaking in tongues, of prophecy, of visions, of revelations, of miracles, of casting out demons etc. jesus did a lot of miracles such as feeding thousands of ppl with 5 loaves of bread and two fishes and walking on water. the apostles and disciples after him raised the dead, healed the sick, spoke with angels etc,etc.
the apostle paul once remarked in 2 corinthians 12:2 that, " I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven."
John Amponsah 10 years ago
Kweku, many thanks for your comments, and thank you as well for the corrections you suggested. I concede on those points.
The underlying idea, in my opinion is to point out the futility of seeking to "objectively" prove o ... read full comment
Kweku, many thanks for your comments, and thank you as well for the corrections you suggested. I concede on those points.
The underlying idea, in my opinion is to point out the futility of seeking to "objectively" prove or disprove religion or indigenous knowledge using materialistic science as a paradigm of reference because of the incongruity of their axiomatic bases or "starting points", as I referred to in the article.
I also agree that indigenous knowledge in virtually every pre-modern human society (including European ones) included spiritual phenomena in their realms of possibility so what these pre-modern human societies considered to be knowledge and their means of engaging with such knowledge differed (and still differs) from that of the modern, materialistic science approach.
Thanks. Your contribution is the kind I was hoping to witness in regard to this article.
G. K. Berko 10 years ago
I, personally, welcome this topic for the very special reason that it could lead us all to appreciate and employ more critical thinking in most of what we discuss to find the best way forward as a country, and as individuals ... read full comment
I, personally, welcome this topic for the very special reason that it could lead us all to appreciate and employ more critical thinking in most of what we discuss to find the best way forward as a country, and as individuals in pursuit of progressive lives. It opens the flood-gates of serious logical thinking.
Often, such a philosophical topic will deter many away because they regard it as boring, subjective and too intellectually rigid.
The irony of the need to maintain an open mind to enable us navigate in the wide realm of endless possibilities, and the suggestive constraints of certain axiomatic precepts that others would want us to predicate all our thoughts upon fuels my personal interest to participate in such discussions.
The fact that this topic, like many of its kind, often demands more than just one Article to adequately inform the reader, relieves many of us of the burden to fully respond to this article in one attempt. So, I will only begin with a few observations of my own.
The first is that God, as most people around the World claim to recognize, is one and the same but it is the variation of the 'starting points' of awareness among groups that supplies the distinct approaches we bring to His recognition. The universality of the God concept seems to better fit that notion than anything else.
For a specific example, I reject the claim by respondent Kweku Nkrabea that Islam's God is different from the Judaic God, Yaweh. Even though, I have no significant knowledge in Islam, the prevalent evidence suggests that the two Religious concepts are linked to the common Patriarch of the Jews and Arabs, Abraham or Abram(Jewish ), Ibrahim (Arabic).
It is very common today for certain Folks in Christendom to deny any such linkage of the two to a single source. But the claim that the descendants of Ishmael, the Arabs (mostly), could not have the same God as their ancestral brethren, the Jews, with whom they have lived in the same not-so-distantly discrete locations begs the question!
The historical projections more establish the likelihood of God being the same to both. It is the different 'starting points' ( to borrow the Article's Author's terminology), of the two groups that determined their varying approaches to recognize and relate to that shared God.
On the Author's reference to 'starting points', I strongly hold that the temporal variations in the emergence of 'starting points' for different groups and generations affect what the People formulate as an embodiment of their beliefs, be it material Science or otherwise. With the same temporal evolution comes the possibility of the same group changing in its perceptions and subsequently its beliefs on various systems.
What might have been perceived by a group only in the metaphysical World at some point in time, would and could later be perceived in physical form with increased and expanded mental grasp.
There used to be a time that Electro-Magnetism, for instance was thought by others as a spiritual phenomenon. Now, we all know that it is not spiritual but only an invisible (with naked eye) physical phenomenon.
The limits of where we can project our mental faculties at any time seems to largely dictate what we hold for material Phenomenon and non-physical Phenomenon. We could have our minds ability to probe for answers limited by our own institutional constraints, as well. When our traditional knowledge is restricted by taboos in Culture, for example, our group would remain stuck with what our intellect perceive as 'starting points' for us. We would then behave In response to the object of interest within the confines of those limitations. Whenever we have reasons to change our perceptions about that object, a new set of 'starting points' emerge.
What I. personally, comfortably relate to in Christianity, for example, is the fact that the Bible, the embodiment of its concepts, hints to us that God is omniscient, omnipresent and He created us in his own image. Therefore, even in considering the demand for proofs in Material Science, it ought not be taken that what we think of as Non-material can never be proven as having a physical existence.
Many know of the current debate on Dark Matter and the expanding Universes.
When Einstein postulated his Gravity theory, he could not necessarily prove it with the normal Scientific experimentation and observation techniques available but most Scientist bought into it. Today, the theory is under siege by the discoveries of modern Scientific methods and tools. Such vagaries of influx of knowledge have the potential to turn over a non-material phenomenon to a Material one, and either reinforce a set of spiritual concepts or debunk them, given the depths of the Spiritual Faith of those who are considering that phenomenon. Certain diseases that afflict us were once thought of as Spiritual in nature as they defied our way of curing them via Spiritual means. Now, we may be curing them via Scientific breakthrough and its resultant Pharmacology. A new set of 'starting points' could then evolve around that, I believe. The Christians then might say God is revealing to us his infinite wisdom one element at a time.
As we interact on this topic right now, there are suggestions by reputable Scientists that Einstein's theory on Gravity could have been wrong, given what is now more physically observable about Dark Matter. The longstanding Einstein theory could soon crumble unless a new more powerful revelation explains the contradicting aspects on that theory. We should not forget that the Earth was once widely thought to be flat, a concept supported by even Clergies.
With the likes of Dr. Brian Greene of Columbia University in the USA, a notable Biblical concept propounded by Jesus in his saying 'in my father's house there are many Mansions' is seeing Physical manifestation in the new Scientific theory of Parallel and multiple Universes. Very soon we could hear some Preachers referring to that discovery to augment that Biblical view.
Given our predominantly primordial Culture, in particular, any such concept would more easily fit into our non-material or Spiritual beliefs. A new line of belief frontier then begins to form with another set of "start points" in the epistemological trajectory of our Culture. The emergence of such 'start points' is as often our societies adopts new theories, something that relates to generational changes, and how adherent we are to our Cultural precepts over time. The fast mixing of knowledge, globally, via modern Communications like internet, drives many to a certain core belief set that would install different 'start points' for different People along the way.
I will pause here till some other time, and read from others what they also have on this topic.
Long Live Ghana!!!
insight to the bone 10 years ago
the problem with this northern mentality is that thanks to jj they now all have an unquenchable thirst for power but never to serve in a team or accept their fellow countrymen . just look around in Accra and study the majorit ... read full comment
the problem with this northern mentality is that thanks to jj they now all have an unquenchable thirst for power but never to serve in a team or accept their fellow countrymen . just look around in Accra and study the majority of the businesses owned by these northerners and in the majority of the medium and Small sized businesses you notice they only employ their fellow northerners and practically never employ an Akan . Today in Accra the largest religious building in the country will be the mosque being build on our national park at Nima donated by Turkey confirming the Islamic domination of Ghana. Tribalism mixed with chauvinism and despotism from the north has now equaled the hegemony of the ewes . A.C.C.R.A any criminal can roam about so we have them everywhere now . even at the scholarship secretariat hardly ever is an Akan awarded the privilege to go abroad and study now . The Akans are the majority but because most continue to sleep or blindly trust the other tribes these atrocities are taking place . We look at the political strategy of the NDC and see the typical Hannibal wench when he turned the strengths of the mighty Roman army against themselves as they are doing to the Akans . From the south they use part of the Fantis and from the North the Brongs , from behind we have the chariot onslaught of the Gas Ewes Krobos. Yes the political landscape reflects a war which is only meant to destroy the right of self governance of the God's chosen nation of Africa the Akan . For them its a big deal who leads the NPP but we really don't care as our movement grows stronger by the hour as more and more Akans wake up to reality of this dire situation . We did not ask for this war but we will fight it and be victorious as God is with us . Long live the Republic of Akan
John Amponsah 10 years ago
Excellent response, G.K Berko! I consider your response to be a very welcome contribution to this discussion, thank you. I shall now make a few comments on some of what you wrote about (your comments are in ‘[ ]’ while mi ... read full comment
Excellent response, G.K Berko! I consider your response to be a very welcome contribution to this discussion, thank you. I shall now make a few comments on some of what you wrote about (your comments are in ‘[ ]’ while mine start with '-->'):
[I, personally, welcome this topic for the very special reason that it could lead us all to appreciate and employ more critical thinking in most of what we discuss to find the best way forward as a country, and as individuals in pursuit of progressive lives. It opens the flood-gates of serious logical thinking. ]
--> I agree. The very emotive and often non-critical nature of past attempts on this forum to discuss religion and science prompted me to adopt what I guess comes across as a dry, intellectual approach to writing the article in order to focus discussion efforts on sharing perspectives and opinions in a cogent manner. It is much easier (to me at least) to communicate thoughts when in discussion mode, where the emphasis is on understanding others’ opinions.
[The fact that this topic, like many of its kind, often demands more than just one Article to adequately inform the reader, relieves many of us of the burden to fully respond to this article in one attempt. So, I will only begin with a few observations of my own.]
--> Indeed! Even broaching the topic in a reasonable enough scope is not easy. However this is a topic of importance and relevance to just about everyone (if I can get away with making such a claim) so it is one that must be discussed. Discussions and sharing of perspectives can bring about mutual learning and further clarification of opinions and understandings on the subjects of religion and science in particular. If you will, perhaps you could write an article on the subject. I may also write more on this topic in future.
[On the Author's reference to 'starting points', I strongly hold that the temporal variations in the emergence of 'starting points' for different groups and generations affect what the People formulate as an embodiment of their beliefs, be it material Science or otherwise. With the same temporal evolution comes the possibility of the same group changing in its perceptions and subsequently its beliefs on various systems.]
--> I agree and will also include political and sociocultural interactions between human groups as a factor that strongly bears on the temporal variations in beliefs, opinions and thoughts, be they working hypotheses or precepts taken as “knowns”. Trade and warfare have contributed to significant interactions between human groups. These two forces have allowed for the interaction (a sort of ‘osmosis’ to borrow a term from science) of beliefs, ideas and cultural particulars of one cultural group to cross into another. This has been a significant part of the human process: human groups interacting with each other, exchanging ideas, influencing each other and such.
Thanks
Ugly Akufu Addo 10 years ago
The man is GOD for those in UWR
The man is GOD for those in UWR
Ugly Akufu Addo 10 years ago
K4 brought cocaine money for npp
K4 brought cocaine money for npp
Kwame 10 years ago
Consciousness is the property of matter and in that sense the highest form of matter. Man becomes conscious because he or she is a product of society. Thus for a matter to be conscious biologically it must be a human being, a ... read full comment
Consciousness is the property of matter and in that sense the highest form of matter. Man becomes conscious because he or she is a product of society. Thus for a matter to be conscious biologically it must be a human being, a being living in society. The concept spirituality is itself a product of society, thus spirituality can not be an abstract hanging somewhere in the world.
The only form of matter that labour is man. Man labour in accordance with the knowledge he acquired from society, his own observations and skills. Man is said to be a negation of negation of nature because man does not perform labour in accordance with his biological definiteness, thus from birth to death man is thought how even to eat.
Spirituality is in itself material either it has to do with the arts, the social sciences and natural science.
Thus to ascribe spirituality to our illusions, which we created is like a mirage in which we do not find water. Spirituality is the property of man and that property to know what is good, bad, beautiful and ugly can not be stolen from him and given to any illusion.
David M. Kabot Tembil 10 years ago
I have been very impressed with the writing of John Amponsah, perhaps a professor who is so modest to indicate so. He write from the point advanced knowledge on a subject that is so abstract to many. I have not been able to c ... read full comment
I have been very impressed with the writing of John Amponsah, perhaps a professor who is so modest to indicate so. He write from the point advanced knowledge on a subject that is so abstract to many. I have not been able to comprehend all what he wrote but the little I have understood leads me to comment as follws: The author writes starting with ownership of the material using his surname ANPONSAH defined from a tradition to start with. He is not a JOHN Khumalo, JOHN Adonkologo nor Brukuktu Brahini . HIS surname and Identity stands defined from his tribe village and family, dating back to a time he has no control over. And he writes with the first name John( a biblical name) or Jewish name ( He is not JOHN the Baptist, nor JOHN the apostle). But he is John most likely a Christian linking the TRADITION (ANPONSAH) HIS CHRISTIAN IDENTITY. The triple point of the author in his spiritual being ( which he certainly) coexisting in the intellectual individual where the organs, cells and muscles work precisely in scientific fashion to give meaning to empirical five senses in detecting the environment. We can use, emotions, sleep and dreaming to try to explain these a non-empirical property of a person in trying to link man to the Supernatural. In other words I want to say that author is a total embodiment of how all these three inter-play , with good reasons to justify Creation whether it be from Science, Religion or Tradition.
I will now link the creation story in the Bible which as come to us from the Hebrew or Jewish Tradition but now bestowed to whole world. The Hindus of India and African Traditional Religionists ( Due apologies to late Rev. FaTHER DAMOAH) have their creation stories based on their traditions and some Scientific. but I shall limit the discussion of what I know from the book of GENESIS in the BIBLE>
" In the beginning (time defined from negative infinity), God ( The supernatural consciousness) said , "LET THERE BE LIGHT"( A form of Energy to make life feasible via photosynthesis). Then the dual property of Light as WAVE and consisting of particles leads to age-old question. "THE EGG AND CHICKEN, WHICH IS OLDER "?. IS GOD THE SPIRIT, the embodiment of all Energies starting with Light?. The debate in a time stretching to Positive infinity.
A man enters a restaurant to order CHICKEN, but forgets the name of the bird. Fortunately, he sees the occupant of the next table eating EGGS and calls out:
"please bring me RICE PLUS half of the mother on an eggs".
And yet the chicken is the Genesis of an Egg. Is there some intellect in EGG to hatch into a Chick ? Do we understand it as mere Energy to be provided by the layer or incubator or even with these chickens, there must be something spiritual?
John Amponsah 10 years ago
Thank you David. Interesting point of view, and interesting expression of another mind! I am always interested in how others think, especially when making an effort to do so, no matter how unique. Thanks
Thank you David. Interesting point of view, and interesting expression of another mind! I am always interested in how others think, especially when making an effort to do so, no matter how unique. Thanks
John Amponsah 10 years ago
Kwame, your point of view interests me. So correct me if I am wrong. It seems that your fundamental assumption is that consciousness is the property of matter. From here, it seems you argue that man is made up of matter so ma ... read full comment
Kwame, your point of view interests me. So correct me if I am wrong. It seems that your fundamental assumption is that consciousness is the property of matter. From here, it seems you argue that man is made up of matter so man can become conscious. That this consciousness is derived from being part of human society. From here you then state that spirituality is a product of society and therefore it is of material quality and not an abstract notion. Then, concrete manifestations of spirituality such as can be witnessed in the arts, the social sciences and the natural sciences is all the spirituality there is?
If you will, can you kindly unpack your thinking some more? Specifically:
1) Does your assumption that "consciousness is the property of matter" preclude the possibility of consciousness being associated with the immaterial?
2) Do you even consider the possibility of the immaterial in your thinking? Just curious, to get a better understanding of your standpoint.
3) Are you conflating the concepts of consciousness and spirituality or do you see them as separate? Further elaboration will help, especially if you can define your terms.
3) What is your notion of "matter", since your post seems to imply that there are different forms, including higher and lower forms?
Thanks
Cano 10 years ago
This is a piece of shit.....who can understand you? You must get your audience to understand you. It's pure crap!
This is a piece of shit.....who can understand you? You must get your audience to understand you. It's pure crap!
I am avid consumer of the existence of God debates on youtube and christian apologetics in general. i have listened to everyone of the so called new atheists (christopher hitchesn, Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris) except for Will ...
read full comment
Kweku, many thanks for your comments, and thank you as well for the corrections you suggested. I concede on those points.
The underlying idea, in my opinion is to point out the futility of seeking to "objectively" prove o ...
read full comment
I, personally, welcome this topic for the very special reason that it could lead us all to appreciate and employ more critical thinking in most of what we discuss to find the best way forward as a country, and as individuals ...
read full comment
the problem with this northern mentality is that thanks to jj they now all have an unquenchable thirst for power but never to serve in a team or accept their fellow countrymen . just look around in Accra and study the majorit ...
read full comment
Excellent response, G.K Berko! I consider your response to be a very welcome contribution to this discussion, thank you. I shall now make a few comments on some of what you wrote about (your comments are in ‘[ ]’ while mi ...
read full comment
The man is GOD for those in UWR
K4 brought cocaine money for npp
Consciousness is the property of matter and in that sense the highest form of matter. Man becomes conscious because he or she is a product of society. Thus for a matter to be conscious biologically it must be a human being, a ...
read full comment
I have been very impressed with the writing of John Amponsah, perhaps a professor who is so modest to indicate so. He write from the point advanced knowledge on a subject that is so abstract to many. I have not been able to c ...
read full comment
Thank you David. Interesting point of view, and interesting expression of another mind! I am always interested in how others think, especially when making an effort to do so, no matter how unique. Thanks
Kwame, your point of view interests me. So correct me if I am wrong. It seems that your fundamental assumption is that consciousness is the property of matter. From here, it seems you argue that man is made up of matter so ma ...
read full comment
This is a piece of shit.....who can understand you? You must get your audience to understand you. It's pure crap!