FT Interview with Kufuor

Mr Kufuor, you've won one battle, but you certainly have another ahead of you?

JAK: Yes, I have a full battle, but a different battle from what I expect you are speculating on.

What are your immediate priorities?

JAK: Securing the state and government and forming my government and inducting it into managing the civil service.

What do you mean by 'securing the state'?

JAK: What I mean by securing the state is ensuring that the security agencies of state are firmly in place and are loyal to the new government and to the state as a whole, so there is no untoward upset in the state machinery.

How confident are you as president elect that you will have the security agencies working with you having, as they have done over the past twenty years, worked with a man that, I suppose a lot of them see as a fellow brother, a former soldier i.e. President Rawlings.

JAK: I assume that our soldiers and other security agencies are professional in the first place and, as such, would know that their loyalty should be to the state, the sovereignty of the land, and not to any one individual or partisan group. It is on this basis I feel sure they would accord me the commitment and loyalty to serve me, for the state.

You are speaking quite cautiously, do you have doubts about the loyalty of the army?

JAK: I have to speak cautiously, because this is Africa. I happen to have been a member of an earlier government, which lasted only two years and three months, because some soldiers banded together and overthrew the government. So, once bitten twice shy. So naturally, this is why I said I should secure the state and the government. It is top priority with me.

With just seven days till the swearing-in, there is not much time to everything, form a government, meet the heads of the security agencies, the army, the navy, the airforce, the police etc, how are you going to fit it all into a short week?

JAK: You are assuming that you need to form the government before the end of this week. No, I don't think so. I think what we need the seven days to do is how to take over the government. And, by the constitution, the government is the presidency. I believe there is a bit more time for the president to scout around, pick his team to form cabinet and government generally. The president has more than seven days to do all that.

Within the seven days, what is necessary the way I understand it is my putting up a transitional team to work with the outgoing government's own team. A sort of, handing over exercise in which the government's team would, hopefully, open the books of government to my people to see what the government is leaving behind. And through that, we would be informed to take steps to tide ourselves into office smoothly as far as it is possible.

I suppose that also means checking the state coffers?

JAK: Well, opening books may include that.

Are you expecting some surprises from the books?

JAK: Mmm. I have to brave myself for all eventualities.

You have said on many occasions that you don't want a witch hunt, but do you foresee some kind of audit of the public services to ascertain exactly where things stand and, if so, would that be something that would be transparent to everyone in Ghana?

JAK: Transparency is going to be the order of the day with my government. Fortunately we have a constitutional institution called the Auditor General's office. Naturally and sensibly, I should call on that office to let me know the state of things with the balance books of government.

But you don't forsee any particular probe into the activities of public institutions which have been subject to allegations of corruption?

JAK: My government would move on facts, not on speculation, on facts. If there is justification to order a probe, naturally a responsible government would order such a probe. Not until the facts are there, to warrant such a probe, I won't go fishing.

What about reconciliation, because in your acceptance victory speech, you pledged to reconcile Ghanaians and Ghana?

JAK: Yes, it's a very top priority item. I'm sure you know the tensions that have plagued the nation over the past 20 years or so, from PNDC to NDC. So many citizens have suffered in one way or another. Some people have lost their lives, some have lost their properties, some have been manhandled and all these have happened without due process of law. So,naturally there are many people who are aggrieved and,unless the government stepped in to reconcile the people, the nation, deliberate, we might find vendettas and reprisals and people taking the law into their own hands may become the order of the day. These would lead to chaos and I will not permit that to happen in my regime.

So, this is why I talk about reconciliation so much, so that the government would, sort of provide a safety valve for hurt feelings to be assuaged, for people who wronged to feel not too threatened, so as to enable them to come forth and show repentance, so all of us can live together and move ahead in the interests of the nation.

By repentance, are you talking about a truth and reconciliation commission, South African-style?

JAK: It is in the spirit of the South African experience. But government is not going to go out threatening prosecution and that sort of thing. We just can't cover truth if it should be there, but we would sort of reduce the tension in the atmosphere to such point that nobody would feel endangered.

How will you go about this?

JAK: Necessarily if the state is going to provide the sort of buffer to absorb some of the heat, there must be a body, a state body, to which people can refer and pour out their worries and things like that.

Do you expect that now that president rawlings is leaving, after 20 plus years at the helm of the country, with a short break between '79 and '81 that people are going to go after him?

JAK: I don't speculate on that. I am not speculating at all that people are going to go after President Rawlings, but I believe it's natural for people who feel aggrieved to want to settle scores unless something is done about it and done about it quickly.

Coming more recently to the battle for the presidency and the acrimonious side of the campaign and polling day itself, do you feel that you are going to start governing over a Ghana that is divided, regionally and ethnically?

JAK: I have a long background in Ghana's politics. My party, for instance, hasn't enjoyed a much needed cordial relationship with say the Volta Region. But I have made that a special task for myself and my government, to reach out to Volta Region, to assure that region that there is nothing to fear from our government, as far as their region is concerned. We want to assure the region that we mean very well towards it. We see the region as an integral part of Ghana and the people there as citizens, as anybody else from any other regions and that government will accord them their rights, respect them.

We mean to do well, serve them so well that, we hope,within the space of four years, whatever fears,whatever suspicions have prevailed over the years,would break down for normalcy to supplant all the suspicions and ill will.

That's quite a hurdle isn't it, because we've heard reports from the Volta Region (President Rawlings'home region) of people saying if you're coming to our town, you're going to need a passport if you're from another part of the country and you're voting NPP, then go back to your part of the country, you are not welcome it looks like you have quite a battle onyour hands.

JAK: I am not underrating the challenge at all. It is a serious thing, but I don't think we should allow this morbid situation to continue. It might become like a flashpoint or time bomb. We can't accommodate that. I believe it is a human problem and we are going to confront it. To conclude, I would say yes,perhaps there isn't too much time for us to work on the reconciliation in all its departments, but we will begin it and I hope the people will see the good will in me and in my government towards all corners of the country and come round to support us.

Mr Kufuor, campaign pledges and campaign promises are probably quite easy to make, and with your supporters behind you, that's fine. But now that the election is over, as president elect do you think you can deliver on your promises. And what are the priorities? Ghanaians talk about education, they talk about health and, of course, the economy. What do you think Ghanaians are going to say in 100 days' time, when you haven't been able to deal with all those problems? Do you think that the good will will disappear?

JAK: Ghanaians are not as simple as the question would assume. I am sure there is nobody that would expect that, within a hundred days, anybody, however good would be able to turn the situation around. So,all the problems of economy, of social services and soon and so forth would be solved. What I would expect the Ghanaians to expect of a new government is the initial policies, the nature of them, and how well thought out and focused on problems, how they stand. And once you begin to take the right steps initially,I would expect the Ghanaian populace to begin to see that you are moving in the right direction, so they would come along with you. That is what I want to do within the first hundred days.

Do you foresee a period of austerity for Ghana?

JAK: Naturally, because where you are talking of stabilising the currency, for instance, you would necessarily be talking about the public sector disciplining itself, cutting down on borrowing, balancing its budget, bringing down inflation and interest rates and things like that. These are difficult under any circumstances. So, we might experience some austerity. But that's the way to restore health in the body politic, so we would do it. But, at every stage we would use transparency, we would try to explain things to the people, to carry the people along with us. So, even when there is austerity, because they have been shown the way out of the bind of problems, they would be tolerant and continue to support us.

Are you warning Ghanaians then to brace themselves, to tighten their belts.

JAK: Yes, yes, yes. Yes, we'll tell the problems to them and also tell the solutions we are trying to usher in. And, on that basis, when you tell people to brace themselves or tighten belts, they will understand, I'm sure.

Will you be counting on the support of the donor community to help Ghana through this period?

JAK: Very much so. Because I do not doubt that the donor community always meant well in helping Ghana. Since we are going to be disciplined as a government,we would be taking the right policies which would be there for all to see and to appreciate, I would expect the genuine friends of Ghana to give us the supportand encouragement.

In return for that you are going to have, perhaps, to make some very tough decisions in the very near future, such as deregulating fuel prices, electricity prices etc.

JAK: I believe the deregulation of utilities and petroleum products, I thought, according to the incumbent government, was already in place. But the current government has been so opaque, unforthcoming in the matter of fixing of prices of these basics that one doesn't know whether government has done the right things all along. So, we would want to go in and look at the price structures, how government came by the mand we would want to know whether the prices do not contain conventions for wasteful companies and institutions like the GNPC (Ghana National Petroleum Corporation) and so forth. So, we will look at the structures and, if we find there are any cuts we have to do, so as to alleviate some of the hardships of the consumers, we won't hesitate at all to cut them out. But if we should find that everything in there has been put there economically, then we will tell the people that this is a burden the consumer must bear and so it must be.

Are you ready to be tough, are you ready to be unpopular, are you ready for fuel prices to rise, are you ready for Ghanaians to demonstrate against you?

JAK: I am ready to be efficient, to turn the economic and social tables, which have been to say the least stagnant over so many years, around, positivelyso as to get the economy and society moving progressively into advancement. I am ready to do this and, if it would mean my being unpopular, it's just unfortunate. I'm ready to be very tough, but tough for a purpose, for an objective. I would be focused on getting everything moving in the right direction for Ghana as quickly as possible.

In the four year term you have, how are you going to set about trying to make Ghana less susceptible to external shocks, such as the collapse in prices for cocoa and gold and rise in oil?

JAK: Definitely, protection is not going to be part of our scheme of doing things. No. We would rather broaden the base of production and try to enlarge the market within which Ghana would earn hard currencies to give us the insulation against external shocks, because this is really the problem. Because the economic production base is so narrow and fragile,the slightest upheaval in the petroleum or whatever sector outside comes back with a bang on the economy. We are heavily import-dependent in Ghana. So, when my government talks of enabling the private sector to assume the leading role and restoring the economy, we would mean it. We would encourage the private sector to get more efficient, get more competitive in the market so as to earn more for Ghana. This would mean encouraging manufacturing, more of the service industries, more modern and efficient agriculture. We have got the basics. Ghana has so much advantage on the agricultural front; good lands, good watercourses and the people are willing to do the work. What is left is good policies by government to support the farmers; modernize agriculture using irrigation, mechanization, giving access to credit to the farmers and helping the farmers use extension advice, I am sure within a short time Ghana will be able to feed itself and export to earn hard currency through the agricultural front. It also provides a lot of employment. About sixty percent of the workforce depend on agriculture, so agriculture is very very relevant.

What was it in your opinion about the Rawlings'government that meant it didn't achieve these things?

JAK: To be candid, I don't think this government had any serious policy, well thought through policies on the agricultural front. So, in consequence, our agriculture virtually collapsed.

And in general, why didn't the Rawlings' period see Ghana take off economically in a more dramatic fashion?

JAK: The regime didn't move into the economic recovery programme that was advised by the multilaterals voluntarily. The regime moved inconveniently to get help from the multilaterals and the donors. If the regime had not accepted the conditions of the multilaterals, there was no way it was going to get all the help that came its way and, within the past ten or fifteen years, the regime came by as much as US$12bn, because somehow it managed to convince the world that it was cooperating with the multi-laterals. This regime was a regime that started off with extreme leftist tendencies. It didn't believe in the private sector being the engine of growth. Unfortunately for it too, with hindsight, it didn't manage the public sector efficiently. It allowed corruption to seep into government and there was a lot of waste. Given any year during the tenure, if you looked at the auditor-general's report, you would see that waste and corruption alone absorbed something like a third of all the outlays government made, whilst at the same time the private sector that could have broadened the base of earnings, especially export earnings, hard currency earnings, was undermined.

Government introduced liberalization without any planning whatsoever. So, within a short time, Ghana found that more efficient supplies of the needs of the nation, from outside, were dumping their wares on the country and the local industries and producers just couldn't keep up with the competition from outside. They began to collapse, say with the textile industry for instance. So now, when you drive around the industrial areas in Accra, you will see that the factories are more like shells. They are used as depots to import food and textiles from China, Taiwan and Thailand and places like that. They are not used to run machines to produce.

But I suppose the government of President Rawlings, and it has done, points its fingers back to the time when you were in government in the late 60s and says the rot started then, your government mismanaged, the Busia government of the late 60s and early 70s, mismanaged the economy and that's where the trouble started.

JAK: The Busia government lasted only two years three months, starting from 1969 and being overthrown January 1972. Rawlings' governments, PNDC and NDC,have had twenty long years, starting from 1982 continuously till now 2000. If this new government, incumbent government, has any policies to stem what it called rot, it should have been able to do it. Twenty years is enough for any government anywhere. So, if at the end of the 20 years, this government is having to point accusing fingers at a government that existed is it 40 years ago, then it's admitting to its incompetence. It just failed. In any case, Busia's government was not as rotten as Rawlings tries to make it out. Busia's government of three years two months left a egacy of the period of highest economic growth in Ghana's history since independence.

During those three years, rate of growth averaged 6.7 per cent, in terms of gross domestic product. And if you go to the central bank of Ghana now, to check the figures, you'd see that it was the period of highest economic growth in the history of Ghana. Such a government couldn't have been as bad as Rawlings would make us seem. I tend sometimes to suspect that Rawlings and his government suffer from a hangover of ideological narrow mindedness and also sentimental hate for Busia's regime. Busia's regime, I was part of it, and I tell you it was perhaps the best government Ghana has had to date.

Mr Kufuor, you mentioned it earlier, corruption. When President Rawlings came to power, he blamed this on past civilian governments. How will you deal with corruption if you find it in your government?

JAK: What I would do would not be dependent on what Rawlings said. He started off accusing civilian governments, but the truth is that the soldiers too have been as corrupt if not more corrupt as the civilians. So, what he said doesn't come in at all. In any case, currently his is a civilian government and his government is rife with corruption.

What are you going to do about corruption?

JAK: What I am going to do about corruption is that I have told Ghana that I would begin with myself, I would do everything humanly possible with myself not to get corrupt, so that I would be able to ensure my ministers and high officials who work to me will be disciplined, that I can deal with them if they should become corrupt. And through that, I would expect the discipline and the anti-corruption crusade would seep down to the grassroots. I believe this is it. And then I would empower the investigative agencies of state to be primed everywhere to be sure that corruption remains under assault. And again further, would support the judiciary, which is a different arm of government would enable it with all the support government can master, to be able to dispense justice as expeditiously and as fearlessly as can be, so people offending are quickly brought to book and dealt with due process of the law. These are the things I want to do.

At the end of your four years, do you expect that you will have been able to put more money in the pockets of Ghanaians, and will that money be worth more than it is now?

JAK: Yes. I have said it, and I want to repeat here, that the centerpiece in my manifesto, and it's there in black and white, is wealth creation. So, I'm going to work to generate wealth and this we'll do by encouraging the private sector in the first instance, to broaden the base of production to get more competitive, on the global market, not just for our little market here - because we want efficiency to be the order of the day.

Government would assist Ghanaian entrepreneurs to partner worthy venturers from outside, venturers who would bring in not just capital and know how, but also markets so that Ghana becomes like a production pad for international markets for whatever and government will give all the incentives. We want to make Ghana so investment attractive that investors will begin tolook here. With that, I believe there would be employment and more money coming Ghana's way to distribute through better wages and remunerations for the people. We want to increase the per capita income, which stands at $370 now, by the time my term would be up, to something like over $1000. And further, we would have laid the foundations so well that, whoever takes over the economy should be able to add to the returns for the people.

That's in 4 years or 8 years?

JAK: Four to eight years. Whenever I go. Whenever I leave the scene, I want to leave a positive sort of balance, credit for people to build on.

That sounds impressive but how are you going to set about reducing poverty in Ghana?

JAK: When you talk of gainful employment for the people, when you talk of broadening the pace of production, you are talking of creating jobs. That's where the Adwoas and Kojos will also be taken care of. They will be earning and I say I want the per capita income, which is the average, to move up. And when it moves up, it moves up I believe for the Kojos and the Adwoas across the board everywhere. This is the grand design we have and I tell you it's still very practical, because what has been the trouble has been the subversion of the private sector during Rawlings' era. For 20 years, the private sector has not been given a chance to grow under Rawlings. We want to reverse this and reverse it radically. We do not suffer from any ideological hiccups, I and my government. We are not coming in with any fancy ideologies. We are open, we are liberal and we are not ashamed to say engendering wealth is the centerpiece. So we believe we are going to be the most business friendly government the nation has had to date. That will help. And government will go all out with appropriate policies to help the farmers, help the manufacturing sector and business people generally. The important thing is to show us that your feasibility studies are workable and good, and that supporting you would be gameful for the state. My government will come out and help you.

Bottom line though, your policies don't differ much from those of the outgoing government.

JAK: What I've said so far should show you that we are radically different. These people paid lipservice to the private sector and I'm telling you, it won't be lip service with us, it will be real support for the private sector, that's different. That is a very very different approach. The outgoing government has allowed the currency to plummet, right now it's only a shadow of itself. When this government came in, when the incumbent came in, the cedi exchanged with the dollar at 2 cedis for 1dollar around 1982. Government is going out with the exchange rate standing at 7000 cedis to one dollar. They've collapsed the system altogether. They haven't added to the production base. Ghana is still heavily dependent on cocoa, the raw materials, cocoa, gold and timber. I am saying we are going to move away to support manufacturing, to support modernization, to be part of the global market where competition should be the order of the day. We are going in to support the private sector. This is not what the outgoing government has done. So, we are very different policy-wise.

Finally, what do you think are the regional implications of the democratic transition taking place in Ghana?

JAK: Ghana has always been a pace-setter in free West Africa. Ghana was the first colony to have gained independence in 1957, much earlier than most of the both Francophone and Anglophone countries, and again the first leader of Ghana Kwame Nkrumah was the man atleast from Africa who took part in launching the pan Africanist cause. And so when you consider the fact that we are the first of the countries around our part of the world who have used the ballot box to change government the development here should influence the course of events in terms of using the ballot box, democracy to change government I hope that will affect people and we have done it relatively easily, so this should have a big impact.

If you look across the region, there are several ountries which have had similar experiences - Senegal, Nigeria, to a certain extent, and now Ghana. But the rest of the region is in turmoil. How concerned are you about your neighbour Ivory Coast, the situation in Liberia and Guinea and what will you be doing to assist resolution of some of the conflicts?

JAK: I am very concerned about the developments in some of the countries you have mentioned. Cote d'Ivoire is a very close neighbour which shares so many things in common with Ghana. The tribes straddle the boundaries, common boundary from the coast right up to the northern parts the same peoples are on either side of the boundary. So whatever happens there naturally affects events in Ghana. So even if it is out of self interest I would want things to correct themselves in that country and I would extend it further to places like Liberia, Sierra Leone and Guinea. What I am seeing more and more, yes the ethnic and tribal differences are there but at bottom it tends to be the personal ambitions of the leader or leaders and perhaps what one should be doing when one gets an opportunity should be trying to influence the individual leaders so we sort of self-restrain ourselves, put limits to our personal ambitions and make us more aware of the interests of our people atlarge, make us aware that we happen to be living in times in which the events in the world are so open thanks to telecommunications developments that whatever happens anywhere immediately is exposed to the rest of the world, and that if we care for ourself respect in this global village then we should be doings things so that we do not become the laughing stock among the rest of the world I think the leaders must be made self-conscious of this exposure.

Will you be working closely with presidents like Abdoulaye Wade in Senegal and Olusegun Obasanjo in Nigeria in regional peacekeeping efforts?

JAK: Very much so. It is a collective responsibility we must bear. Ecowas to me is a reality and we are thinking of an Ecowas parliament, Ecowas markets and many other things we share in common for the common advancement of all of us. So all presidents who are moving in the right direction, showing enlightenment I would work with and together I think we should all contribute to influence events in less fortunate neighbouring countries for the better.

And how far up the agenda will regional economic integration be?

JAK: Yes we will be doing that. The gateway idea that has been talked about so much in Ghana I will work to realise. Yes we are together we are a commonmarket but I would want Ghana to be the gateway into West Africa. And for that I shall be pushing very hard to empower the sub-region because Ghana would then become the hub of opportunity. Ghana should not be an island in a poor wilderness. No. I want the sub-region to be rich and with Ghana as of then I would say yes we are giving leadership. So, I will push very much for the advancement of the Ecowas idea.